Tuesday, December 31, 2019

Keto Q&A: Diving Into Keto For Life

We didn’t set out with the intention, but somehow it happened. Keto For Life was assigned a release date of New Year’s Eve—tomorrow, in fact. While there’s never a wrong day to go keto, my writing partner, Brad Kearns, and I felt like the stars aligned. Just when countless people are taking stock at the turn of new decade, wondering what might be possible in their lives, this message would be there. And while a lot of books will be there, too, with promises of weight loss and fitness and wellness, I have to say (biased as I may be) that Keto For Life offers something unique and sustainable among the typical cacophony of health tracts.

While I’ve shared its premise and outline on the blog, today I’m taking up some questions readers have shot my way over the last few weeks. What does it cover that other books haven’t? Does it offer a new take on longevity? How do other principles come into play beyond diet? I’m covering all that and more.

How does Keto For Life differ from The Keto Reset Diet?

Since the start of Mark’s Daily Apple, my core purpose has been to present a counter-argument against flawed and dated conventional wisdom. On the blog here and in my books beginning with The Primal Blueprint in 2009, I’ve focused on presenting the scientific rationale and practical steps for how to escape carbohydrate dependency and become fat- and (more recently) keto-adapted. I’ve made the case for rejecting the “struggle and suffer “ethos of chronic cardio in favor of a Primal approach emphasizing comfortable paced movement and aerobic workouts, lifting heavy things, and sprinting once in a while. And, finally, I’ve emphasized the non-negotiable importance of complementary lifestyle behaviors like getting enough sleep, sun, and play.

All of us in the ancestral health space have been heartened to see how far we’ve come in the past decade. Many ancestral health principles have been widely validated by science and accepted into mainstream culture in a relatively short amount of time. Back in 2009, it was hard to find someone who had any awareness of Primal/paleo/low-carb eating (including major New York publishers—that’s why I had to start Primal Blueprint Publishing!). Today, it’s a different ball game. The movement’s growth over the past decade has allowed discussion to refine and advance. Without the need to push just the basic premise, there’s been more momentum around deeper, more productive levels of personal customization. The keto and carnivore diets are examples of these ancestral offshoots.

The Keto Reset Diet was one of the first comprehensive books published on the subject, but it’s primarily a diet book—how to proceed in a comfortable step-by-step manner to embrace the ketogenic diet without the risk of backslide and burnout that comes with an ill-advised approach. It does cover the complementary exercise, sleep, and stress management practices that support your dietary goals, but the central focus is on introducing the ketogenic diet to the masses.

Keto For Life picks up where The Keto Reset Diet left off by having you leverage the metabolic flexibility you attain from keto efforts and applying it to the ultimate goals of living long and living awesome. In particular, it integrates the critical components of mindfulness, social wellness and emotional well-being for enhancing longevity and enjoying a fulfilling life. It moves beyond the core ancestral health message of “mechanics”—mechanics of eating the right foods, of doing the right workouts, of quantifying everything and checking every box…but with that potential big void of “Are we having fun yet?” Keto For Life leads with life. The focus is squarely on the good, long life we all hope to achieve.

What Does Keto For Life have to say about longevity?

We played around with using the term “longevity” in the title, but who cares about longevity by itself? Today, most people can make it to the average U.S. life expectancy of 79, but too many limp to that finish line, having endured decades of pain, suffering and limitation. The United States ranks 26th out of 35 economically advanced nations in life expectancy, a pathetic showing for the richest and most medically advanced nation in the history of humanity. In Keto For Life, we tackle the goal of healthspan, which conveys both living long and living awesome. Healthspan entails not just checking all the boxes of healthy foods, exercise output and sleep hours; it also means having fun and finding fulfillment along the way. With the Four Pillars of Keto Longevity, we incorporate healthy eating, movement and physical fitness with the concepts of Mental Flexibility and the often-overlooked pillar of Rest and Recovery.

How does compressed morbidity fit in here?

Compressed morbidity describes being healthy, strong and cognitively sharp for as long as possible. Then, by the time the natural inevitabilities of chronological aging come into play, the end is quick and peaceful. Brad’s father Dr. Walter Kearns was a stellar example of this concept. He passed in May of 2019 at the age of 97. Ninety-five of his years were characterized by exceptional mental and physical function. A champion golfer for his entire life, Walter shot below his age over 1,2000 times, including shooting an even par 71 at age 87 and a 76 at the age of 92. Walter was a general surgeon who continued to serve as a physician for decades after closing his private practice. He worked for the Indian Health Service into his late 70s, and volunteered at a weekly diabetes clinic until he was 95. In his final two years, Walter’s cognitive and physical performance started to decline. His golf outings went from 18 holes for money to casual 9-hole outings, and eventually to hitting chip shots in the backyard. He started to take longer naps, eat less food, have longer nights of sleep and shorter walks at the park. Soon, the day came for him to pass peacefully at home, with none of the drama, suffering, or family fatigue of someone paying the price for decades of adverse lifestyle practices with chronic disease patterns.

Going for compressed morbidity is about keeping muscle mass on your body (promoting a concept called organ reserve I’ve discussed at length in The Primal Blueprint and on the blog) as well as your brain! In a pattern that appears often in the book, the Four Pillars are complementary here. Eating an ancestral-style diet in general and making a devoted effort to become keto-adapted (even if you don’t stay in strict keto over the long-term) strongly supports cognitive function. You may have heard the disturbing new nickname for the assorted cognitive decline conditions that are growing at epidemic rates: Type 3 Diabetes. This term was coined by noted researcher Dr. Suzanne de la Monte of Brown University, conveying how cognitive decline is marked by dysfunctional glucose metabolism in the brain. As de la Monte explains, cognitive disease “has molecular and biochemical features that overlap with both type 1 and type 2 diabetes.”

We hear sound bites about doing Sudoku to ward off dementia, but I go far deeper in this book. Extensive research shows us how a vibrant social network, a strong sense of purpose, and a positive self-perception about aging drive healthy cognitive function and extended lifespan. One longitudinal study from Yale tracked a group of 50+ people in Ohio for two decades, revealing an amazing result: Those with a positive self-perception about aging lived 7.5 years longer than those with negative self-perceptions about aging! This tidbit earned distinction as the lowest hanging fruit in the entire book to quickly add years to your life. The longevity champs in Okinawa also get recognition here for their emphasis on yuimaru, a deep sense of social obligation to family, friends, and neighbors. One of the most revealing longevity stats you will ever find is that Okinawan’s who leave the island live 20 years less than those who spend their entire lives on the island.

What’s the #1 quick takeaway from the Mental Flexibility pillar?

“Pivot.” Is that quick enough for you? Thanks for asking. Next question.


I can’t think of a more powerful word to convey the secret to experiencing a life filled with happiness, contentment, purpose, and meaning. I credit the ability to pivot as the key to my entrepreneurial success, and also to my ability to sustain a respectable level of work-life balance. As I shared in my introductory post about the book, pivoting describes being able to go with the flow when facing life change. Pivoting is accepting failure and setbacks with grace and resilience instead of allowing bad stuff to bury you. Pivoting is also knowing when to hold ‘em and when to fold ‘em. It’s impossible to be perfect here, but at least you can be honest with yourself. I share my own experiences of failing but embracing of this strategy in the book.

Pivoting into discomfort by being more honest, more vulnerable, less reactive, and less predictable can be the foundation of emotional resilience as well as solid relationships. Gratitude helps a great deal here. If you can start from a place of appreciation for your current circumstances and connections, whatever they are (if you’re reading this it could be worse, right?), you’re ahead of the game.

Whether you’re new to the Primal scene or you have a stack of well-read books on your shelf, I think you’ll find that Keto For Life breaks new ground and offers the most holistic and actionable resource for creating greater vitality and a happier, healthier and more fulfilling life. The official release date is tomorrow, December 31st, and I’m still offering up a preorder incentive of premium bonuses. Learn more and order through your favorite retailer HERE.

Thanks for reading, everyone. I’m thrilled to begin a new decade with you all this week. See you on the other side of it tomorrow.


The post Keto Q&A: Diving Into Keto For Life appeared first on Mark's Daily Apple.

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Happy New Year!

Happy New Year Everyone!!!

Mini Chef and I wish you a fabulous New Year’s Eve and a fabulous 2020!!!

Recipes will resume next year! Ha!

Happy New Year!!

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Monday, December 30, 2019

Feeling Happy and Healthy, Medication-Free

It’s Monday, everyone! And that means another Primal Blueprint Real Life Story from a Mark’s Daily Apple reader. If you have your own success story and would like to share it with me and the Mark’s Daily Apple community please contact me here. I’ll continue to publish these each Monday as long as they keep coming in. Thank you for reading!

Folks, I have been grateful for every story that has come my way over the years. It’s an incredible privilege being on the receiving end of your reflections and evolutions, and they are why I’ve kept at it all these years—knowing the message and information have made a difference in people’s lives. I appreciate every single one. I’ll add that today’s has inspired me on a new level. It’s a powerful narrative and huge testament to the impact of diet and lifestyle on our mental well-being. Thank you to reader, Megan, for sharing her strength, tenacity and hope with others today. 

Hi everyone. Mark recently requested success stories and work-in-progress stories. I’ve been meaning to write for a while, and took that to be my personal kick in the butt. I am a work-in-progress story. I was waiting until I was a success story, but as you will see even though my journey isn’t complete, I already am a success story. I have found inspiration from other stories, even the work-in-progress and failure stories; it is good to see that imperfections exist, and it is ok to fail. I can only hope to inspire others. Because, my story is one of hope—hope for myself and hope for others like me.

I had a difficult upbringing with a mother who had an undiagnosed and unmedicated mental illness. She tried the best she could to be a mother, but she was overly critical toward me and even competitive with me. I would hide in the outdoors, books and food. Secretly eating a bag of cookies by myself or hiding Halloween candy that I would binge off of when she wasn’t looking. I lived solely off macaroni and cheese for dinner (yes, every night) for about a year and a half in fourth and fifth grade until I suddenly couldn’t stomach the smell anymore (At 40, I still can’t to this day). Friends in middle school and high school thought it was amusing how hyper I would get from sugar and would feed me pixie sticks and other candies on purpose. You would think that I was extremely overweight with these eating habits, but I was active as a child through high school (marching band, track, hiking, cycling) and looked every bit the “normal kid,” albeit an emotionally scarred one; I was happy and bubbly on the exterior but falling apart inside. I was regularly sick with sinus infections or bronchitis. When I hit puberty, my mother’s criticism’s turned to fat shaming me even though I was actually technically underweight. I refused to eat healthy foods as a way to rebel against my mom. I excelled in school and read more books than ever as a way to escape.

I started to exhibit signs of a mood disorder when I was in high school with extreme bouts of depression and some episodes of rage, typically around “that time of the month.” The beginnings of grandiose ideas also manifested, on occasion. The depression was severe enough for me to have suicidal ideations, but no actual attempts. The depressive lows continued into college, but then the highs started to come. I would not be able to sleep until 3 or 4 in the morning and then wake up ready to go at 6 am for days on end. Then I would crash and swing back to extreme lows and want to sleep for hours. I didn’t realize anything was wrong until I went to the health fair at school. On a whim I filled out a “how are you feeling questionnaire.” I checked off a few boxes, handed it over and thought nothing of it. I was so used to feeling the mood swings; including extreme depression that I thought that feeling that way was “normal.” The staff at the tent looked over the results and was so concerned that they would not let me leave. They walked me right over to the mental health clinic to get checked out. That fall (2000), I was diagnosed with Bipolar I. Around the same time I also was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid and began thyroid hormone support.

Enter a series of different cocktails of psychiatric medications. My weight yo-yo’d along with all the side effects of the various medications (mood stabilizers, anti-psychotics, anti-depressants, benzodiazepines). I continued to have all the classic symptoms of Bipolar I, grandiose ideas, paranoia, severe depression, anxiety. I wouldn’t allow myself to have a credit card because I couldn’t trust that I wouldn’t spend the whole thing in a matter of a couple of months. I made one major attempt to take my life by intentionally overdosing on about 40 slow-release lithium tablets (please do not try this; after dialysis I am lucky to be alive and not a vegetable). I was also hospitalized on several occasions for short inpatient psychiatric treatment stays. I didn’t have many friends because I wasn’t stable enough to be a reliable friend. People didn’t know how to behave around me and treated me differently, like someone who needed extra care instead of just like anyone else. I went through various cocktails of medications and found I responded better to the older, but that I was never truly “stable.” I tell this part of my life story not to shock, but to say that there is hope for healing. I want to show how far I have come and how far it is possible for others to go by adopting the Primal Blueprint. Photo: me in 2007 after several years of medication.

I went back and forth with running over the years as a way to lose the weight that the medications put on. Running also became an addiction and a meditation for me; a different way to escape reality. Add in my rescue border collie to run with, and I was in heaven. Running with her was my happy place. It saw me through broken friendships, a divorce and meeting the incredibly supportive and loving husband I have been with for the past 10 years. On the first date I told him my diagnosis, and he said “ok, let’s do this.” My friends told me I was crazy to tell him. I guess they didn’t know my diagnosis…. Photo: happy wedding day. (Me in 2013.)

Without realizing it, running made me sick with more inflammation. I ran six half marathons and one full marathon before quitting due to severe tendonitis in one ankle. At this point I was frustrated. I had been heavily medicated for over 15 years and never really felt well; I felt like I was hiding behind a veil and not letting people see my true self. I started doing research on scholarly articles for how gluten and casein could play a role in exacerbating mood disorders. I decided to eliminate gluten from my diet. Within a week my husband asked where my stomach had gone. I had been so bloated for as long as I could remember that I thought it was normal.

Nursing my ankle back to health and still feeling frustrated, I continued with my research and somehow stumbled on Mark’s Daily Apple in early 2016. AND IT ALL CLICKED. The pieces of the puzzle finally came together. The health and environmental impacts of following the PB made complete sense and I was all in. I was already GF, but I started adopting more of the PB principles. We bought organic grass-fed meats from the local farm, ate organic veggies. I ditched process foods and sugar. I stopped drinking caffeine. I identified that gluten, caffeine and sugar gave me anxiety, and that dairy gave me depression. I eventually also ditched alcohol, which I realized also caused depression and sleep disturbances. I went from brittle nails to being irritated with how often I had to trim them. The extra 25 pounds slowly fell off over the next year and a half. I was on the lowest maintenance doses of my medications ever. My period was normal for the first time in my life ever, regular and with no PMS.

This is me on vacation in St. Croix in 2017 – I’m at my healthiest ever but still medicated.

I was doing kundalini yoga at the time and without realizing the power of the practice, I put myself into a manic state. Despite my pleas not to, I finally agreed with the psychiatrist to go back on Zyprexa. This medication destroyed my gut microbiome I had worked so hard to repair, and I gained 20 pounds back in a matter of two months. Once I was off the Zyprexa, I continued to eat Primally, but not as well as I had been. My psychiatrist is thankfully one who is a bit more progressive than most. He listened to me tell him that I felt like I was pinging back and forth on low doses of mood stabilizers to anti-depressants. He decided to take me off medication and see what happens. After 17 years of psychiatric medications, I took my last dose Thanksgiving of 2017. If that isn’t a success story, then I don’t know what is.

A year and a half later, I am still struggling to lose the weight, and have my periods back to normal. I struggle with sleep on a regular basis. I am working with a naturopath to identify supplements that support the methylation pathway issues we identified, and sleep is slowly normalizing. But I am still off psychiatric medication and my thyroid hormone medication dose has slowly been lowered by a third of what it was two years ago. I have had no paranoia, and no mania. I have not been hospitalized in almost three years. I have had only minor bouts of depression, mostly associated with hormones.

I can’t do the 80/20 rule like most folks can and am much closer to a 100% rule. That works for me, but doesn’t work for everyone. I do not eat gluten, except for maybe one special “treat” while on vacation once or twice a year. I do not eat dairy. I meditate and practice mindfulness and compassion. I do yoga, hike, walk, play with my dogs, and do body weight exercises when I am up for them. I use a kettlebell for my sprints once every week or two. I run a 5k once a month to get my running in but won’t allow myself to do more than that. I have embraced minimalist shoes 100% of the time, if I am not allowed to be barefoot (happy ankles and feet again). I have slowly been reducing my need for glasses for myopia. I began removing environmental toxins from my life years before I discovered the PB. Allergies are less severe and I have much less frequent sinus infections, and, when I get them I recover much quicker. So, while I feel like I am struggling to get back to where I was and feeling really frustrated, I have to remind myself that I already am a success story. My psychiatrist now jokes that I am a boring person for him and has discussed discharging me. He asked what I think precipitated the illness. I really don’t know the answer, but my guess is an unchecked thyroid condition (my antibodies were negative the one time I checked, so I don’t know if I have an autoimmune condition), a really bad diet, emotional trauma as a child and extreme stress. I don’t know the answer, but I guess it doesn’t really matter because I have a way to manage my symptoms.

This is me in the early morning after hiking to the top of Moro Rock in Sequoia NP in 2018. Feeling healthy and happy being medication free! Mark, my husband, my dogs, my family, my friends and I thank you for saving my life. My psychiatrist told me several years ago that of all the people he treats with Bipolar I, only about 25% are able to function in society (complete college and hold a successful and functional place in the career world/society). Statistics indicate that I would have eventually either taken my life or the psychiatric medications would have done it for me. Thank you again for saving my life and giving hope to others. I’ve often been told that I am strong to have been through so much and made it this far. My husband tells me how much he admires that I get up and face the world every day even though all I want to do is curl up with the dogs and a book in bed. He asked if I was scared what people might say if they found my story. It doesn’t matter. I’ve found that people are too quick to dismiss me because of a label. I’m sick of being a label and an outcast. If my story is out there and can help one person, then I feel fulfilled. Because maybe someone else is out there looking for another way, but they can’t find it because someone didn’t speak up to tell them that there might be. I really appreciate you giving me a way to take back control of my life. Thank you for giving me the means to help myself. Hopefully my story can provide help and hope for others.


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Sunday, December 29, 2019

Eggs & Greens Buddha Bowl + Leaky Gut Meal Plan Cookbook Giveaway

Hi friends! I have a fun recipe and giveaway for you today! What’s on tap? A delicious Eggs & Greens Buddha Bowl and giveaway of The Leaky Gut Meal Plan – a brand new book by my friend Sarah Kay Hoffman of The Gutsy Girl.

If you’re not familiar with Sarah, her blog and Instagram account have been a favorite of mine for years. She has so many resources for gut healing, hormones, acne… all things I struggle with personally. Obviously, I am super excited about her brand new book, but first let’s talk about this recipe.

Protein, healthy fats, veggies… looks like the gang is all here! I love that this recipe is loaded with greens and topped with avocado, plus you get a double dose of protein from the sausage and eggs. This would be a perfect meal for breakfast, lunch, or dinner!

Eggs and Greens Buddha Bowl Recipe

The Leaky Gut Meal Plan Giveaway

The Leaky Gut Meal Plan helps you achieve relief from gut issues by offering concise information about leaky gut syndrome, and how to identify and treat it. It also includes a 4-week meal plan, along with 75 recipes that have been carefully chosen for their gut-healing properties as well as for their tastiness.

Every week of the meal plan has a specific purpose: removing harmful foods, replacing them, repairing the leaky gut lining, and rebalancing your body to its new and better normal. You’ll also learn the basics of digestion, immunity, and gut nutrition, so you’ll be fully equipped to take back your own health.

The Leaky Gut Meal Plan includes:

  • Weekly shopping lists―The chapter for each of the 4 weeks begins with a full list of every ingredient you’ll need, so you can be prepared.
  • Know before you cook―Every recipe includes the nutrition info, prep and cook times, and indicates whether it can be made in one pot or with just 5 ingredients.
  • Easy and encouraging―Get all the inspiration and motivation you need to make long-lasting healing happen.

Enter the giveaway: Just leave a comment on this blog post about why you’d like to win a copy of The Leaky Gut Meal Plan. I’ll randomly pick a winner next week. Good luck!

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Chocolate Peanut Butter Fat Bombs

These little fat bombs are the perfect treat and a great way to up the healthy fats in your diet while eating keto. We used Primal Kitchen® Peanut Butter Collagen here, but you can swap it out with vanilla or chocolate varieties. Store these fat bombs in the fridge or freezer to keep them firm. For a more chocolatey fat bomb, melt your favorite super dark or sugar-free chocolate and dip the tops of the chilled fat bombs in them. Dust with more Collagen Fuel and chill before enjoying.

Servings: 14

Prep Time: 15 minutes

Chill Time: 2-3 hours


  • 1/4 cup butter or ghee
  • 1/4 cup coconut oil
  • 6 Tbsp. almond butter (we used Lux CBD Almond Butter)
  • 4 scoops Primal Kitchen Peanut Butter Collagen Fuel
  • 1/2 cup cacao powder
  • 1 tsp. vanilla extract
  • 1/2 tsp. finely ground coffee
  • pinch of salt
  • Super dark or sugar-free chocolate for topping (optional)


Melt the butter and coconut oil in a small saucepan.

Once melted, whisk in the almond butter. Transfer the mixture to a bowl and whisk in the collagen, cacao powder, vanilla extract, coffee and salt.

Pour the mixture into silicone molds of your choice.

We used 1 tablespoon of the chocolate mixture in each mold, which yielded about 14 squares. Refrigerate the molds for 2-3 hours or until firm. Store in the fridge.

Optional: If you’d like, melt a little of your favorite dark or sugar-free chocolate. Dip the tops of the fat bombs in the chocolate and flip them over. Dust some collagen over the top as well if you’d like.

Nutrition Information (with regular almond butter—1 tablespoon worth of fat bomb mixture, or 1/14 of recipe):

  • Calories: 148
  • Total Carbs: 5 grams
  • Net Carbs: 3 grams
  • Fat: 13 grams
  • Protein: 5 grams

Nutrition Information (with Lux CBD Almond Butter — 1 tablespoon worth of fat bomb mixture, or 1/14 of recipe):

  • Calories: 140
  • Total Carbs: 7 grams
  • Net Carbs: 4 grams
  • Fat: 11 grams
  • Protein: 4 grams

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Stuffed Mushrooms Recipe

This stuffed mushrooms recipe is perfect for parties, get togethers or even just a snack for a night in.

Delicious and flavorful appetizers don’t h…

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Friday, December 27, 2019

Weekly Link Love — Edition 61

Research of the Week

The French are eating more soy (and soy isoflavones, estrogen mimetics) than ever before.

Not only does integrating livestock with organic crop rotation improve the health of the soil, it makes food safer.

A systematic review of the health effects of intermittent fasting.

Religiosity predicts cat ownership.

New Primal Blueprint Podcasts

Episode 395: Dr. Stephen Hussey MS, DC: Host Elle Russ chats with the good doctor, a functional medicine practitioner and chiropractor.

Primal Health Coach Radio, Episode 40: Laura and Erin chat with Sterling Griffin.

Each week, select Mark’s Daily Apple blog posts are prepared as Primal Blueprint Podcasts. Need to catch up on reading, but don’t have the time? Prefer to listen to articles while on the go? Check out the new blog post podcasts below, and subscribe to the Primal Blueprint Podcast here so you never miss an episode.

Media, Schmedia

The White House is considering making all scientific journals open-access.

A second HIV patient has apparently been cured.

Interesting Blog Posts

The phytoestrogen content of the Impossible Burger dwarfs that of normal beef, claims blog post.

Plasmalogen deficiency, and what you might be able to do about it.

Social Notes

Holiday fun with collagen.

A short message.

Everything Else

After a fire, thousands of Atlantic salmon escape a British Columbia fish farm.

How Crisco toppled lard.

An interesting new study.

A high intake of sweets and restaurant food characterize the typical “high-carbon footprint” family, not high intake of meat.

Things I’m Up to and Interested In

Research I found interesting: Early human environments were totally unlike anything we see now.

Older news that remains sad: First ever cases of obesity in nomadic arctic peoples arise as venison and fish intake drop by half and noodle intake explodes.

I’m not surprised: How many vegans and vegetarians are actually eating animals?

Article I never expected to read: Did Michelangelo’s David have heart failure?

Article I’m sad to be reading: Are vegan diets detrimental to children’s growth and development?

Question I’m Asking

Should vegan diets for infants be illegal?

Recipe Corner

Time Capsule

One year ago (Dec 21– Dec 27)

Comment of the Week

“Thanks for all you do, Mark and keep on Grok’in in the New Year! As for me, I’m off to Wal-Marsh for some fresh ‘gator armor.”

– Send me a set, would ya, Neanderchow? An elephant tusk ruined mine.


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Metabolic Flexibility, Paleo MREs, Anxiety and College Student Food | THRR009

Make your health an act of rebellion and join the community here.

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

This episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by Perfect Keto. Perfect Keto makes eating keto easier. Perfect Keto provides clean low-carb bars, nut butters, and supplements, and the best keto recipes and info so you can keto with confidence. Go to http://perfectketo.com/rebellion10 and use code REBELLION10 for $10 off orders of $40 or more 

Download a copy of the transcript here (PDF)

Watch the podcast video here


Show Notes:

News topic du jour:
Red Meat and CVD https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2752320/red-processed-meat-consumption-risk-all-cause-mortality-cardiometabolic-outcomes?


1. Paleo MRE [18:18]
Matt says:

I’ve been in the military for about five years now.  I joined later in life and after I was introduced to paleo/keto/low carb.  Let me tell you, the DOD approach to nutrition is pretty bad.  Outside of some interesting studies they are pursuing, they still stick to the standard info we are used to hearing of low fat, high carb, chocolate milk for recovery, gatorade to rehydrate (we were force fed gatorade at the last school I went to in San Antonio, I would put LMNT in my water and a tiny bit of gatorade powder just to change the water’s color).  With the ever increasing number of product lines that exist that cater to a paleo/ low carb/real food crowd, could there ever come a time when a paleo MRE product could be developed that would be low cost enough to compete for a government contract with the trash that’s out there now?  MRE’s are full of sugar and food with a long shelf life that have some serious GI consequences that, let’s just say, take an individual from one extreme to the other when it comes to bathroom utilization.  The beverage powders are just plain gatorade, the fat sources are usually peanuts, the protein is nearly non-existent, and the “energy bars” are incredibly high glycemic.  About an hour after consuming one, most people just want to put a diaper on and take a long nap.  I know there are several paleo MRE’s available commercially, but in my experience they don’t address the caloric needs of a soldier in the field and consist primarily of jerky, nuts, and dried fruit.  When you look at a cost to calorie ratio they don’t really pan out too well.   

2. Anxiety, College student food [22:52]
Cole says:
Hey Robb and Nicki,

Recently I have been struggling with stress and anxiety. It started about 4 months when I was preparing and being interviewed for a job which was very stressful.  A random thought ended up becoming an unwanted intrusive thought which caused lots of debilitating distress, stress and anxiety. I ended up loosing about 10 pounds unintentionally. Begun getting the chills and shivering in the mornings. Loss my appetite. I am still struggling with the chills and shivers in the morning but my anxiety and stress levels have dropped. My mind had also gotten more clear. I’m not gonna lie…during the time this happened I was not eating too well. About 3 years ago I lost 100 pounds with a non paleo low carb approach, that was cleanish. I have maintained it since then. My 21st birthday was around this time and I did drink quite a bit but I have limited usage to once a week. I like paleo. I cleaned up my diet quite a bit and I feel it has made a difference. Should I stick with paleo, go low carb or even keto. Thank you for your help and please let me know what you think!



3. Ketogenic diet after having had an attack of pancreatitis [28:25]
Anil says:
Have implemented the PKD diet but have been struggling with the 2:1 animal fat to protein ratio. Prior to this I was on the classic keto diet and also struggled with animal fats (fatty cuts of meat, bone marrow for e.g) but never had a problem with avocados, nuts or raw milk fatty cheese. Have had an attack of pancreatitis 4 years ago also became a diabetic but reversed all that naturally via the keto diet, but still struggle with gut issues. Could this be linked to the attack of pancreatitis? if so why just animal fat and not other fats? Also did my fecal elastase test, fat in stools etc which were normal. Also a CT scan of pancreas did not show any abnormality….so what gives?

4. Am I Metabolically Flexible? [34:43]
@ketoKJ says:
Question! low carb/keto for 2 years, if I indulge in a HCHF treat I expect to feel horrible & I don’t, does that mean I am Metabolically flexible or still insulin resistant?

So I had a fried pie with ice cream. A special place we stop in Georgia. And I eat meat heavy low carb and always surprise I don’t feel the discomfort most talk about, no bloat, headache, stomach ache kind of wish I did.

5. Interested in hearing your thoughts on this…. (Genistein, Soy) [37:17]
Shannon says
My name is Shannon, and I have one of your books (wanting to buy more!), and LOVE your podcast…such GREAT INFO.

Anyways, I got an email from “GreenMedInfo Newsletter” and one of the articles was talking about the health benefits of a nutrient found in Soy to help with Bone Density.  Everything I have read, and understood about soy (IMO overall) is NOT GOOD…I’m curious to know your thoughts on this article- because I assume people, women especially, will be running to the store to buy this to “Increase Bone Density.”  I’d love to hear you go into this on one of your podcasts!  See link to the article below


Thank you for your time, and keep up the great work!

Shannon Connors



Robb: I think it’s going.

Nicki: I think you’re recording.

Robb: Welcome back to another edition of the Healthy Rebellion Radio. Wife, what’s going on?

Nicki: Oh, gosh. I just hope everybody’s having a very wonderful and safe holiday week.

Robb: Indeed.

Nicki: We’re super pumped because just coming up here in a few weeks, we’re doing our very first 30 Day Rebel Reset and 7 Day Carb Test inside the Healthy Rebellion.

Robb: What more could you ask for?

Nicki: I know, so we’ve got all kinds of stuff planned. I know we mentioned this in the previous episode, but I just want to remind folks, if you are curious about the Healthy Rebellion community and you’re not yet a member, this is really the perfect time to join because we’re going to be doing a community-wide 30 day reset for those who want to. Some folks are already doing keto and have set macros, or maybe you’re a carnivore, but there is the sleep movement community pieces of the reset that we’ll be touching on as well, so if you want to join and have community support and Q & As and all kinds of fun stuff we’ve got planned then join us.

Robb: Yeah, there is a lot going on in the Healthy Rebellion. We generate a lot of content in there, but these transformations are really valuable for folks. Regardless of you, body composition, or performance, or even like you say, kind of a sleep or other lifestyle type stuff, so yeah.

Nicki: And just that support, right. A lot of times people make a big plan to do something different in the new year, and they are going it alone, and it’s a lot harder to go it alone frequently for most people then to have a supportive community that’s got your back.

Robb: Generally, the greatest determinate of whether or not somebody succeeds in change is the social support that they have, for sure. So that kickoff is happening January 10th, so make sure to join the Healthy Rebellion before then if you want to get it in on this.

Nicki: And that’s at join.thehealthyrebellion.com. Robb, what do you got for us for our, what do you have for us? What do you got? What do you got for us today, news piece.

Robb: We’re channeling a little bit of Beastie Boys there for a minute. I almost hesitated to pull this one up because we beat on these kind of retrospective epidemiological studies all the time and then it’s like oh, we have one that supports our position and whatever. So we’ll go with the confirmation bias, however it plays out. But it appeared in the annals of internal medicine red and processed meat consumption, and risk for all cause mortality and cardio-metabolic outcomes. A systematic review and meta-analysis of cohort studies.

Robb: It was a massive paper and it was just published November, or it’s due out, no it was published November 19th, 2019. So pretty darn new paper and it created a pretty good stir. This one and then some of the rebuttal around the EAT-lancet piece, which was … basically it was making the case that pulling meat out of the diet was going to cause people to overeat, leave them nutrient deficient. We’ve had a few modest wins on this stuff, at least I feel like some more … And again it’s so funny, because everybody’s just fucking biased.

Robb: It’s like well, it support our position, so it’s got to be right. You know I don’t even-

Nicki: You’re scientists aren’t, my scientists are right, your scientists are wrong.

Robb: Yeah. This is a whole funny-

Nicki: It’s like what happened to the scientific method and having, I don’t know. It just feels like everybody has their scientists on their team, and it’s just this on going battle.

Robb: Yeah, it’s funny, do to I’m having this existential crisis here, in front of everybody. The MO right now is to just fucking barrel forward. This is the way it is, this is what the data proves. And it’s always, there’s some element of interpretation and there’s limitations. Nothing’s perfect, but then at the same time, if I don’t present this with absolute certitude … The way to win this stuff is to just present it with certitude. This is the fucking way it is.

Robb: And then if you try to maintain some degree of scientific grounding, then it’s like no, we don’t know it all. And this is interesting but what could some of the limitations be. Then it’s like wow, they’re not really too sure, so I’m honestly … I’m having a moment here.

Robb: But anyways so, it was a great paper, we’ll post it in the show notes, it is open access. But the conclusion out of the whole thing, the magnitude between red and processed meat consumption all cause mortality and adverse cardio-metabolic outcomes is very small, and the evidence is of low certainty.

Robb: So they’re saying that, to the degree that there might be something here. The effect is tiny. And even then this is an artifact of having shitty base material to pull from. Which is basically these food frequency questionnaires and recollections, to say nothing of the statistical torturing that occurs to get one of these effects. This is nothing on par with looking at the epidemiology of smoking or even, we’ve been, I’ve been sharing some stuff with you on sunlight exposure. And I’ll share this at some point later, but there was a study that looked at sun exposure in smokers versus non-smokers, and the sunlight exposure was so beneficial, it was as if the smokers were not smokers. They were as healthy as non-smokers.

Nicki: So if you’re going to smoke, lay out in the sun.

Robb: Yeah, yeah, oddly enough. Or maybe smoke while in the sun. But the effect there was profound. It wasn’t nominal, you didn’t need a bunch of statistical torturing to be able to get this kind of agenda. So yeah. But it’s funny. So within this vegan battle and everything that’s kind of going on, is this front that comes out of things, like game changers and stuff like that. It’s just this wall of certitude, and so I’ve actually been trying to counter that in some ways with less certitude. Being more conservative and like well, here’s the limitations.

Robb: This will be something interesting just for the listens. Give us some feedback on that, because I don’t ever want to be in an echo chamber. I don’t ever want to be so beholding to a particular-

Nicki: Position.

Robb: Yeah position that it-

Nicki: Because information changes, and you get new data and you get new information, and so you have to be able to … and that’s where this-

Robb: No you don’t have to.

Nicki: Well, okay.

Robb: You can just pick a world view and just fucking steamroll it. That’s kind of what I’m saying. And what’s interesting about this, is the people that are kind of winning, at least in the short-term under the current circumstances like this. It’s just certitude, everything is known, all the shit’s all buttoned up. Do I have everything plugged in that needs to be plugged in, yes I do. Okay. That’s good. Sorry I looked down at our pile of cords and there was something that wasn’t plugged in. But it’s fine.

Nicki: A dangler.

Robb: Yeah, we had a dangling- So anyway, totally off topic there, but it’s interesting.

Nicki: It seems like there should be some gold standard of scientific study. How does the average person make sense of this? You’ve talked about differences between epidemiological studies and randomized control trials and all these different types of studies. The average person doesn’t know the different between them and which one is more valuable than another. And especially when you have vegans with, touting their epidemiological studies as being the gold standard when other people in science don’t believe that’s the gold standard. How do we move forward? What’s the answer in science? Shouldn’t there be some … we did this study and five other teams replicated it, so this is, as far as we know, with the information we have and what we were studying, this is good to go. Gold stamp. How could we move forward?

Robb: There have been this things called Cochran reviews, where they, this Cochran group get together and they kind of grab everything that’s available. And it gets shifted or sifted or triaged based off the type of research. So if it’s a randomized clinical intervention, double blinded, that’s kind of like gold standard stuff. And it gets weighted heavier than even things like this paper, which are more retrospective epidemiological based type research.

Robb: But there was recently some suggestion that the Cochran process is maybe not as integrated as what we would like. That there may be some kind of issues there. I think at a minimum when we look at this stuff, we can use possible this ancestral health model or a general kind of world view. The vegans kind of look at blue zones. The more ancestral health folks look more at Kitavans and Okinawans and go forward from there.

Robb: And then we have these review papers, epidemiological in nature, then we start getting into animals trials and then human trials, and so there is a way to kind of order and rank this stuff. When there’s a claim that, like there’s current thing going around, James Wilkes is pushing this, the notion that meat eating causes-

Nicki: Erectile dysfunction.

Robb: Erectile dysfunction. And this is genius marketing on the part of the game changer people. And I don’t know how we got out on this diversion, but we’re here.

Nicki: I don’t know. It is genius because, I feel, well I could be wrong. But it seems like women gravitate towards plant based more than men, I don’t know. But then-

Robb: Well in the messaging-

Nicki: Pulling out the erectile disfunction piece. Any guy that is eh, no, I’m not, I’ll definitely add more veggies but I’m going to keep my meat. But as soon as a guy hears erectile disfunction, then it’s like plant based. Here I go.

Robb: Right. In the study that is being cited or the process that is being cited on that, and I’ll do a full breakdown. It is bullshit. The claims around that vascular epithelial function is so taken out of context. But it is fucking genius, the way that they stacked all this stuff up. And historically, the more vegan based agenda has been more kind of a caregiver, more feminine kind of angle, but as part of the game changers, they’re talking about gladiators are fucking bad asses. So of course, you go, eat like a gladiator, which that was all taken out of context.

Robb: Any guy that is not concerned about his penis not working may be close enough to death that it doesn’t really matter at that point. And so that’s a beautiful way to sow some concern around this. Yeah, yeah. So I will circle back around and touch on that but-

Nicki: We should. Maybe we can make that a news topic for-

Robb: We can do that, the news topic next time.

Nicki: For the next-

Robb: But I will also tackle that one in the lab, because I want to really thoroughly detail, what are they claiming. Here’s the process they used, and then let’s look at all this other stuff in some context, so yeah. See I just diverted us into a whole podcast worth of goofiness. But again, I would request of you folks. You guys are following us, you’re supporting us. What is a reasonable position to take on all this? I get that if I just presented this iron wall of certitude, we might actually be better, but in my experience having had multiple mentors pull this card and kind of go to crazy land and cease to be able to learn and adapt.

Robb: On the one hand you could make the case that it’s, well for the movement you kind of want this. But then at the same time, as soon as you adopt that position, you’re learning and evolution stops. You’ve basically written who you are and what you’re about into a stone tablet, and that’s it. You are a fossil at that point. So what’s the trade-off there with trying to move an agenda forward that I think is reasonable. But even then, this is where I’m hesitating. It’s like well, it’s our opinion on it, so I don’t know.

Robb: I’m so betwixt and betweent about that, other than I’m pretty sure that evolution, economics and thermodynamics are going to win the date. The fact that a plane flies does not violate the laws of physics. It operates within the laws of physics. It is not defying gravity, it’s working within the parameters of gravity using aerodynamics. And all of this stuff kind of links back together. The energy inputs, the economics, the evolutionary medical or species appropriate diet kind of perspective, all of that matters. So maybe I do need to be a little bit more certain about that.

Robb: Anyway I’ll shut up, we’ll keep going.

Nicki: Let’s do our-

Robb: We really are probably down to six listeners at this point, so.

Nicki: Let’s do our review t-shirt winner announcement. We’ve got a review from Elmas. Healthy guts of the world unite. No dietary agenda, no making you feel guilty about eating mistakes. Just a lot of knowledge of a very complicated topic, nutrition, explained in a way everyone can understand. I thank you, my healthy gut thanks you.

Robb: And our healthy guts say thank you to you.

Nicki: And no dietary agenda, right.

Robb: Maybe no, okay.

Nicki: She appreciates that. Elmas, thank you for review. We’d love to send you a Healthy Rebellion Radio t-shirt, so shoot us an email over to hello@robbwolf.com with your t-shirt size and your mailing address and we’ll get that shipped off.

Robb: Sweet.

Nicki: Yeah. All right. This episode of the Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by Perfect Keto. Fuel your low carb lifestyle with Perfect Keto’s line of snacks and supplements. You can use their ketones or MCT oil powder to energize for a workout, a work session, or whatever life throws your way. Exogenous ketones notoriously taste awful, but Perfect Keto comes in delicious chocolate sea salt and peaches and cream flavors that go in almost beverage and taste great. Coffee, you can even put it up in just plain water.

Nicki: Now Robb, exogenous ketones can be super powerful in certain situations. When do you think someone might want to use them?

Robb: Yeah they’re oftentimes touted as a weight loss aid. To the degree that I’m comfortable with that are studies that look mainly at a mixed food diet that is calorically balanced but the fat source in one of the arms of this was mainly MCT oil. And it produced noticeable measurable degree of ketosis. And what happened is that subsequent meals, folks spontaneously reduced calorie intake. So I think that there’s some potential ethicacy around that notion, that so long as we’re paying attention to what we’re eating and we use this to maybe offset some other caloric intake, then it may, that state of ketosis of that comes about from MCT, possibly also the beta hydroxybutyrate salts, may stave off hunger later and so we spontaneously reduce food intake.

Robb: But I like to be careful with that. Some folks in the industry have been very fast and loose with the claims they make around that, this is one of the reasons why I like Perfect Keto. They’ve actually had their feet on the ground and are reasonable in the way that they tackle this.

Nicki: Also great for folks that have had any kind of brain, traumatic brain injury-

Robb: Yeah the traumatic brain injury deal, yeah.

Nicki: Concussions.

Robb: Yeah, yeah. And this is a controversial topic, it hasn’t been well researched. But I could make the case that where all of these types of products should absolutely shine, every youth sports first aid kit should have multiple packets of some sort of a ketone ester, a ketone salt, an MCT ketone salt combo or something like that. And a kid gets their bell rung and they should be on some sort of a protocol like that.

Robb: Now again, we don’t have research to support this. I think that there is some work underway to show that the potential ethicacy there, but just mechanistically it makes a lot of sense for helping them mitigate that kind of post-concussion syndrome. So that’s one place that it’s kind of like man, this stuff could really shine.

Nicki: Right, right. All right, you guys can go to perfectketo.com/rebellion10, and use code rebellion 10 for $10 off orders of $40 or more.

Nicki: And now, Robby, we’ve got our questions for the week.

Robb: “Robby, I love ya kid.”

Nicki: Robby. Okay. Paleo MREs. Matt says, “I’ve been in the military for about five years now. I joined later in life and after I was introduced to paleo, keto, and low carb. Let me tell you, the DOD approach to nutrition is pretty bad. Outside of some interesting studies they’re pursuing, they still stick to the standard info where you’re used to hearing of low fat, high carb, chocolate milk for recovery, Gatorade to rehydrate. We were force fed Gatorade at the last school I went to in San Antonio. I would put element in my water and a tiny bit of Gatorade powder just to change the water’s color.” Nice.

Nicki: “With the ever increasing number of product lines that exist that cater to paleo low carb real food crowd, could there ever come a time when a paleo MRE product could be developed that would be low cost enough to compete for a government contract with the trash that’s out there now? MREs are full of sugar and food with a long shelf life that have some serious GI consequences that, let’s just say, take an individual from one extreme to the other when it comes to bathroom utilization.

Nicki: The beverage powders are just plain Gatorade, the fat sources are usually peanuts, the protein is nearly non-existent and the energy bars are incredibly high glycemic. About an hour after consuming one most people just want to put a diaper on take a long nap. I know there are several paleo MREs available commercially, but in my experience that don’t address the caloric needs of a soldier in the field and consist primarily of jerky, nuts and dried food. When you look at a cost to calorie ration, they don’t really pan out too well.”

Robb: Yeah, this is a tough one. Where processed carbs and sugar and high fructose corn syrup shine-

Nicki: Shelf life.

Robb: Is massive shelf life products. Something that could go from below freezing to 140 degrees because it’s in a shipping container, and back and forth, and then you can still rip it open and it’s essentially edible. That’s a tough one to compete with. Ages ago we tried developing some stuff around this and it’s … This is just a story where, and it stinks because folks generally in the military don’t get paid a ton of money, and so … Personally supplementing what your kit is, is probably the most effective way of going about doing this.

Robb: So what people will do they’ll, like he alluded to, these MREs will have a thing of peanut butter and then cake and some other things and people will pull out the peanut butter. They basically will swap out as much as they can so they supplement the base MRE and they will trade other people, like hey I’ll give you the cake for your peanut butter and stuff like that.

Robb: And so your buddy’s going to keel over from diabetes and poop themself, but you may be okay, but those are kind of the options out there. The interesting thing is, at some points the government’s going to have to figure out that it’s super expensive to feed people poorly, and even, and it’s more expensive to feed them poorly than-

Nicki: Feed them well?

Robb: But this is another one of these things, we’ve talked about this, with the risk assessment program. Most companies these days, these gets out in the weeds a little bit, but one of the challenges of getting a company to invest in it’s workforce is that the workforce is generally a very mobile. People on average stay at a job less than four years now. So employers are frequently engaging in this game of hot potato, where they just hope that the person has a catastrophic even when they’re somewhere else. And so there’s the fact that the people aren’t there for 30 years and getting the golden watch retirement handshake. There’s not the impetus to invest in folks, and so even within the military, generally people are not career military. People that are career military tend to take their health more seriously and do different things. And so it’s a really tough deal but at some point, there’s probably going to be a breakdown in just … They’re finding it difficult to even field an adequate force because of how deconditioned and metabolically broken people are.

Robb: So I don’t know. At some point the cost of doing this poorly is going to be such that it will be reasonable to at least do it better, but in the interim folks just need to figure out ways of supplementing the kit that they have, yeah.

Nicki: Got it. All right our next question is around anxiety and college student food. Cole says, “Hey Robb and Nicki. Recently I’ve been struggling with stress and anxiety. Started about four months ago when I was preparing and being interviewed for a job which was very stressful. A random thought ended up becoming an unwanted intrusive thought which caused lots of debilitating distress, stress, and anxiety. I ended up losing about 10 pounds unintentionally, begun getting the chills and shivering in the mornings. Lost my appetite, and I’m still struggling with the chills and shivers in the morning, but my anxiety and stress levels have dropped. My mind has also gotten more clear.

Nicki: I’m not going to lie, during this time, or during the time this happened, I was not eating too well. About three years ago I lost 100 pounds with a non-paleo low carb approach that was clean-ish. I’ve maintained it since then. My 21st birthday was around this time and I did drink quite a bit, but I have limited usage to once a week. I like paleo. I cleaned up my diet quite a bit and I feel this had made a difference. Should I stick with paleo, go low carb or even keto? Thank you for your help and please let me know what you think.”

Robb: What’s your thought on this?

Nicki: It’s kind of hard to know exactly what his question is. He’s wanting to know what dietary approach he should go, sounds like he had some stress that has resolved for the most part-

Robb: Somewhat, yeah.

Nicki: The chills and shivers, which sounds like he still has that, I’m not quite sure what that could be contributing to that.

Robb: One, I would definitely go get checked out by a doctor, just a general physical to kind of get a baseline-

Nicki: Yeah that doesn’t seem normal.

Robb: That’s concerning. And then above and beyond that, ticking the box of okay, you don’t have something life threatening going on here. It’s really hard, when we get stressed, usually shitty eating is the time expedient thing to do, without a doubt. We feel that, like the last couple months, moving, homeschooling, all this stuff. But it’s also the time that you have to double down. You have to make that the priority, because it’s a additive stress. And eating really poorly, if you want to break something … that and then poor sleep. And usually the poor sleep goes hand in hand with all this stuff.

Robb: So for Cole, I don’t know if you should go paleo or low carb or keto. I would pick whichever one of those you feel like is this easiest one for you to do. If you were eating really poorly and now … any movement in a good direction is probably going to be favorable. I would probably throw in some fish oil because there’s some great research that suggests that that can be helpful, maybe two to three grams of EPA DHA a day. I would-

Nicki: He lost 100 pounds, so I don’t know if he’s at his ideal body weight currently, but if that’s the case then focus on nutrient density, and do the best that you can with … I’m assuming you’re eating at a college cafeteria, or I don’t know if you live off campus, or what you’re kind of cooking kitchen situation looks like. I think you can only win if you focus on quality foods, nutrient density.

Robb: Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. And again that could be paleo, that could be low carb, that could be Mediterranean. There’s a lot of ways to do that, but avoiding processed food, maybe stacking the deck in your favor, putting more calories earlier in the day, fewer calories later in the day, and it’s tough being in school. If you can get to bed earlier and deal with the circadian rhythm. Get out in the sun if you can-

Nicki: Get sun on your body and in your eyes, yep.

Robb: If you can study outside at all. Those things would be big wins. And I would definitely pick up a copy of Emily Fletcher’s book, Stress Less, Achieve More-

Nicki: Yep, great recommendation.

Robb: And I would religiously do that, twice a day. It’s 15 minutes in the morning, 15 minute in the afternoon. But man, had I not been doing that the last six months … I’m already a dick. Nicki will fully attest to that. We’ve been under more stress, getting-

Nicki: Moving halfway across the country, yeah.

Robb: Home schooling, no social network, relaunching, completely changing our whole business model. Putting one podcast to bed, opening up a new one, and that meditation has been … when I do it now, when I’m actually … Sometimes it’s kind of hard. I’m like “Oh, I really wish I could just go sit down and start working” or whatever. But I sit down and I start doing them, I’m like, “I don’t want to do anything else. I just want to stay here and do this all day.” But then about 15 minutes of it, it’s kind of funny, just internal clock, it’s like a timer goes off, I look at the clock, I’m right at 15 to 20 minutes, and it is a life changer. I can’t say game changer because that term is befouled now. It is dirty and befouled but it is a life changer.

Robb: So Cole, find the dietary approach that you can manage, anything is going to be better than total off the rails hookers and cocaine deal.

Nicki: Go to the medical center on campus and see what’s going on with your chills.

Robb: Get checked out, get a basic physical, just to tick the box on that. Address your sleep hygiene, circadian biology, and then get that book.

Nicki: And then let us know.

Robb: Yeah definitely circle back.

Nicki: Afterwards report back, yeah.

Nicki: Okay. Aneal has a question on ketogenic diet after having had an attack of pancreatitis. I have implemented the PKD diet, but I’ve been struggling with the two to one animal fat to protein ratio. Prior to this I was on the classic keto diet and also struggled with animal fats. Fatty cuts of meat, bone marrow for example. But never had a problem with avocados, nuts, or raw milk and fatty cheese. I’ve had an attack of pancreatitis four years ago, which also, and also became diabetic. But reversed all of that naturally via the keto diet, but I still struggle with diet issues. Could this be linked to the attack of pancreatitis? If so, why just animal fats and not other fats? I also did my fecal elastase test, fat in the stools et cetera which were normal.

Nicki: Also a CT scan of the pancreas did not show any abnormality. So what gives?

Robb: And we’ve both gallbladder issues and pancreatitis, we’ve seen it post-gluten exposure. This is a big deal. So I would be curious, was there any focal motor long reading, paleo or keto or whatever, and then they go to … We had a client that he, Straus. He went to a party and he’s like “Oh fuck you guys”-

Nicki: He ate a bunch of gluten and then had serious appendix-

Robb: And he ate a thing of bread and his appendix went bananas and he had to have it taken out. And we’ve seen that a lot, and it kind of begs the question, are you setting people up for frailty on that? And it’s like, I don’t know, their gut heals, and then you get a more profound gut response with this. And so, what’s the cost benefit story there, I don’t know.

Robb: Couple of thoughts on this. So what Aneal is referring to, the PKD, is the paleo ketogenic diet, which the paleomedicina folks in Hungary have produced, and they have some really impressive results in some different areas. They have some approaches with type 1 diabetes that make the folks in the type 1 Grit community absolutely crazy. They don’t agree with it and they’re not big fans. I think that they’re maybe a little bit out of their element on that specifically, and the interesting thing is the paleo ketogenic diet, the way that they set it up. It’s a low protein very high fat diet. And it works great for some people. It’s absolutely amazing.

Robb: It’s pretty much carnivore, for the most part, and then they will introduce some amounts of plant material based off your tolerance and whatnot. But depending on what you have going on, a high protein low carb approach like the Bernstein approach, like keto gains, like what we recommend in the keto master class, is oftentimes a very viable option. If we’re not specifically driving the boat to generate ketones, if we just want to feel good or have normal blood sugar levels, that’s largely where I’ve settled out. I’m eating significant amounts of protein, I keep carbs pretty modest, and then the fat isn’t sky high and my digestion is better and I poop better and all the rest of that stuff.

Robb: So I would look at potentially increasing-

Nicki: Dropping fat and increasing protein.

Robb: Yeah dropping fat, increasing the protein, finding sources that work for you, and also like always with this stuff, if you tolerate carbs or certain types of carbs, then why are you specifically omitting them? I stick in some berries, I stick in a little bit of squash, I drop in a little bit but I’ve just kind of noticed that 20 grams of effective carbohydrate a meal is kind of where I kind of top out with still feeling good and I suspect I’m probably still at least somewhat ketonic. And I don’t do that every meal, but if I’m going to do some harder training I will do more of that throughout the day. But there are a lot of ways that we could tweak this instead of just being totally beholden to this two to one protein to fat ratio. Yeah.

Nicki: Let’s see. Our next question of the week is from keto KJ, and he’s wondering if he’s metabolically flexible. Question.

Nicki: Low carb keto for two years. If I indulge in a high carb high fat treat, I expect to feel horrible, but I don’t. Does that mean I am metabolically flexible, or still insulin resistant? So I had a fried pie with ice cream. Special place we stop in Georgia, and I eat meat heavy low carb and I’m always surprised that I don’t feel the discomfort most talk about. No bloat, no headache, no stomachache, I kind of wish I did.

Robb: No, you don’t, because it sucks. Yeah I think that this is a pretty classic example of someone likely being metabolically flexible. The subjective element to this of not feeling terrible after an event is not 100% ironclad. If we did a little bit of blood sugar monitoring within the story and looked at some labs we might see some stuff that we’re like “oh wow.” Could be a scenario in which you don’t necessarily feel bad but some super gnarly bad stuff is happening. But I would 90, 95% likelihood say keto KJ-

Nicki: Keto KJ.

Robb: Is likely like you, where he’s got a lot, or she, has a ton of latitude on this. I will throw out there that a lot of this can be youth-

Nicki: Switch, yeah, we don’t know how old you are.

Robb: Yeah if you’re 19, 24 years old, then it’s like yeah we would … unless you’ve been eating like a train wreck, all the way wrong, which a lot of people unfortunately do, then we would really expect this. And you let three to five years go by, high stress job, have some kids, disordered sleep and that stuff can change on a dime. So this is where using both the subjective and objective measures, how do you look, how do you feel, how do you perform, what’s your cognition like after a meal, what’s your digestion like and all that stuff. But if you’re motoring along and you’re doing pretty good, kick your heels up, have some fun where you can, but just keep some eyes open that when you get old-

Nicki: Pay attention, does it make you crave these types of foods after or-

Robb: Right, do you spiral back in? Yeah…

Nicki: Are you able to have one and you’re good and you go back to eating your low carb keto without any cravings. Because for some people, maybe they don’t feel bad, but it triggers-

Robb: The feet forward.

Nicki: The feet forward mechanism of wanting to eat more and more sugary yet tasty treats. Let’s see. Our last question this week is from Shannon.

Nicki: I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on this. How do you say that?

Robb: Genistein?

Nicki: Genistein, genistein soy. My name is Shannon and I have one of your books, wanting to buy more, and I love your podcast. Such great info. Anyways, I got an email from Green Med info newsletter, and one of the articles was talking about the health benefits of a nutrient found in soy to help with bone density. Everything I’ve read and understood about soy is not good. I’m curious to know your thoughts on this article because I assume people, women especially, will be running to the store to buy this to quote, “Increase bone density.” I’d love to hear you go into this on one of your podcasts, thank you for your time and keep up the good work.

Robb: Yeah, so genistein is one of the soy isoflavones that are a xenoestrogen. They’re basically phytoestrogen. And so estrogen is really important in bone mineral density. So one of the things that can happen, both in menopausal women or andropause men or men that maybe are on testosterone replacement therapy but they’re using an [romatas 00:37:46] inhibitor to keep estrogen from getting too high, they can actually push it too low and fracture rates can dramatically increase. So you can lose bone mineral density on that.

Robb: To a mild degree, what’s happening in a scenario like this is that the genistein can act as an estrogen. It is effectively a form of phytoestrogen and it can have that estrogenic effect. I think that there are other ways around this that one can employ to work around this, high protein diet, resistance training, proper ADK levels on supplementation, those are all very effective. But this is something where, let’s say we have a peri or post menopausal woman and they might consider some type of bioidentical hormone replacement to get this estrogen effect. And I think that in that scenario you’re getting a more targeted dose, it’s more easily monitored, and also there are some concerns around, say thyroid being antagonized from soy products and whatnot.

Robb: So there are some other ways around that but at the end of the day, this is one of those interesting things where I would generally categorize soy as a potentially really problematic food, but there are circumstances in which the consumption of soy may offer some benefit. In some PCOS scenarios and other scenarios where estrogen levels are actually too high, where women are estrogen dominant, consumption of things like these soy isoflavones mitigate the effects of high estrogen levels because they’re a competitive inhibitor. They bond to the estrogen receptor, but they bond to it less tightly and cause less activation than estrogen itself. Estradiol and whatnot.

Robb: So both can provide some effect if you have no or low estrogen, but it can also blunt the effect of estrogen at high levels. And this is again where shit is kind of nuanced and it’s really situationally specific as to what’s going on. Now with women that estrogen dominant, usually we’ve got some form of insulin resistance that is a big driver in that direction and mitigating the insulin resistance will largely address the estrogen dominance that we see out of that PCOS kind of scenario. So, yeah.

Nicki: Okay. Complicated.

Robb: So it could be good. It kind of is, and this is where I’m a fan of some testing, some people go kind of crazy, but establishing a baseline of androgens, thyroid, that makes a ton of sense. Doing some sort of an LPIR score, lipoprotein insulin resistance score, just to have a benchmark and then you can …

Robb: At least when you update it then, if something has gone totally sideways or if you look, feel, perform worse, then we can at least look at where you were previously and then say “Well, those look good,” now we update it, and then we see something that goes sideways because again, even within the hormone levels … I’ve talked to docs that, there are guys that motor along great, had a total testosterone of like 200, 300, and they do well. And then there’s other guys that need to be at like 1100, 1200, or they feel horrible. If they’re running at six or seven or 800, they feel much, much less well. So, yeah.

Nicki: Interesting. All right. That was our final question for the week. Remember to check out Perfect Keto, the sponsor of today’s episode. As a reminder you can go to perfectketo.com/rebellion10 and use code rebellion10 for $10 off orders of $40 or more, and we’d ask you to share this episode if something in this show helped you, please share this episode with your friends. Please subscribe, leave us a review, wherever you go for your podcast experience and-

Robb: The reviews make a huge difference in other folks just kicking the tires on it and giving it a shot.

Nicki: And listening to the show, yep.

Robb: Yep, yep.

Nicki: And lastly remember now is the time to join us in the Healthy Rebellion. So go to join.thehealthyrebellion.com, and you’ll be right in time to participate in our January rebel reset and seven day carb test.

Robb: Hope to see you there.

Nicki: All right guys, take care.

Robb: Buh-bye.


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